This blog is closed and has moved to http://Charlottegore.com. See you there!
So I've written about how banks decide who gets credit. I've explained how the credit crunch reduces the number of people who will be able to get access to borrowing.I also said that, many years ago, my first job with HBOS (or what was Halifax Plc back then), was sat on a helpdesk fielding calls from branch staff and customers who'd been "declined" credit.
This is the time when my heart was turned into a cold, black lump. Some people, for whatever reason, believe that banks are some kind of social service. Contrary to this popular belief, how much you need the money is not something that's ever going to influence a bank's lending decision. Yet, despite this, people would ring and tell me - if they were lucky enough to get through to the Ice Queen Hell Bitch of Death - how they'd run out of money and needed their overdraft extending so they could feed little Timmy, or that they just needed their credit card limit putting up a bit, or they needed a small personal loan to do the job. They'd shout. They'd scream. They'd curse my name. In the end, I'd tell them, "No."
I had to. My only power was to refer things to a manual underwriting team. In fact, my job existed so that they could get on with underwriting while we took the grief off the unhappy buggers that got turned down.
Some people simply cannot understand that they can't afford more credit. They don't want to hear it. You try to explain this and they'd say, "But I need it!" and I'd have to say something like, "Yes I can appreciate that," and they'd say, "Well how am I going to feed little Timmy? Do you expect me to starve?"
To this day it still amazes me that people would try this sort of thing. I'd helpfully suggest friends, family or even the Government's Crisis Loan system - but I'd point out that, in their current circumstances, it was impossible for us to increase their borrowings with us. They'd scream and curse my name, but I wouldn't fold. I couldn't.
This is called responsible lending. It's not mean. It's not greedy. It's about making sure that customers that are already in financial trouble are not put into an even worse situation because they've been given credit they can't afford. Credit is not just free money. It is a product that you buy, and it costs money.
Often people would say, "What kind of stupid system is this? You only lend to people who don't need it!" which is sort of right. We only lent to people who could afford it, which for some people is the same as saying people who "don't need it" but I didn't want to be deliberately rude and would instead try to empathise with their situation.
I was glad when I moved into IT, put it that way.
So I'm writing about this because I note, with dismay, the tendancy for audience members in "Question Time??!!" to get hearty cheers when they say something like,
"We should nationalise the banks. They're a social utility."
"We should nationalise the banks. They're a social utility."
Agh. No they are not. They are not the country's surrogate Mummy and Daddy. Banks are a business, and have a duty to their investors and depositors to lend money responsibly - not lending to people who can't afford it - and only when there's a realistic expectation of getting the money back - not lending to people who are too great a risk.
Imagine a situation where the banks have been nationalised because it's considered they are, in fact, a 'social utility', and are told that if someone really really needs money for whatever reason they can't refuse to lend. What do you imagine would happen in such a situation?
It becomes a double-whammy nightmare of massive losses (and court fees) incurred by the tax-payer, then terrible headlines as the Government owned banks throws people out of their homes, or sends round bailiffs... and this would be primarily the Government's core vote here, too. A cold, emotionless, privately owned bank acting in its own interest can politely explain to a customer that they can't afford to borrow more from the bank and end the story there. A publically owned bank would just lose money hand over fist. "Repay your debts!" says the newly socialised bank, "I can't afford to! How will I feed little Timmy?" and they'll reply, "Oh, yes, sorry. Never mind. Sorry for bothering you. Do you need another loan?"
So this is the lesson is this: Don't Nationalise The Banks. It will not help. We've already got partial nationalisation, which is in itself part of the problem - the banks are having to pay back the bailout money quickly, and the cost of borrowing from the emergency fund is more than they can sell it on for. The banks are having to recapitalise and pay back the Taxpayer and are supposed to be able to increasing lending, too - all while having suffered the end of the wholesale credit markets. It's a complete farce and an impossible situation.
Banks may be public enemy number one. It might be populist and easy to shake your fist at them and demand that the Government "does something" about them. I hope sanity prevails, for all our sakes.
This blog is closed and has moved to http://Charlottegore.com. See you there!
10 comments:
Charlotte, you misunderstand that the World has moved on. Nationalisation doesn't mean being irresponsible - it perhaps should mean the Government monitoring the loans that are carried out and questioning them even further - almost double-checking that they are fiscally prudent.
LOOK I'M A PRUDENT TAXPAYER ALRIGHT - AND I JUST WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO PUT FORWARD PROPER RULES AND LOOK AFTER MY MONEY AT THE BANKS I PARTLY OWN!
Some people, for whatever reason, believe that banks are some kind of social service
+1. Banks, like, say, Woolworths or Zavvi (Bad examples?) are businesses, out to make a buck.
There is no "Right" to a bank account, no reason to demand such a thing. It's a service- people voluntarily invest in them, ACCEPTING the risks should shit like the current crisis go down, balancing that against the rewards of interest. Not a good risk? Keep your money in a sock!
a bank customer isn't a "saver", he's an investor.
That's why, should my bank ever go into as serious a crisis as Northern Rock, rather than letting the government "fix" the problem and pay me back (by over taxing my kids), I'm withdrawing every penny and buying a shotgun, to quote Ricky Gervais.
Well, thank you but you've not convinced me I'm mistaken nor do I believe that the world has moved into a world of fantasy over reality just yet.
The credit crunch induced recession is being caused by a sudden drop in the amount of money being available for lending. The banks are being hyper prudent, because they have to be.
There's no need to fully nationalise the banks to make them more prudent. In fact, the point of full nationalisation in this particular instance would be to stop them being prudent, to make them lend irresponsibly in defiance of the economic downturn, in defiance of their balance sheets and in defiance of their new financial obligations to the taxpayer.
Your money is being perfectly well looked after and is being repaid. The partial nationalisation and the bailouts and almost certainly aggravated the lack-of-funding situation in the banking sector (because the cost of the emergency bailout money is prohibitively expensive), by the way. It was done to stop runs on the banks, to restore confidence, but only time will tell what the full effect of it was.
All they need to do to stop another housing bubble is to make sure inflation includes house prices. Ideally I'd like supply to meet demand too, but that's just wishful thinking.
Reducing the price of buying houses is something that hurts those who already have housing (70% of people) while increasing availability of massive mortgages seems to get around that problem of unaffordability experienced by the other 30%. It lets people keep getting onto the housing ladder without upsetting all the existing homeowners (and losing votes). It's a unsustainable state of affairs, even without a credit crunch strangling demand for housing by cutting off the supply of money.
Government has a significant role in the price of housing by the way - they, after all, control the supply in one form or another. It's in their interest to keep supply well below demand so that house prices continue to rise. The banks just feed off that, and meet consumer demand for easy mortgages. People made the decisions to borrow more for their home than the home was actually worth. If we'd banned 100% mortgages the only difference would be that all the businesses that go under during this recession would either never have been started or gone under years ago.
A "brave" essay - I can't imagine a worse time to try and convince people that the banks are all about responsible lending, when it's become quite clear that they're not.
Be sorry for the poor banks, because when it seems like they're practising the worst kind of "computer says no" customer service without the actual staff - who should be actual specialists in this sort of thing - having any say at all, they're ACTUALLY trying to look after you, you poor, stupid, naive, incompetent member of the public. Well, thanks for that.
Okay.
1) I did this job 9 years ago. Policies about who can be lent to change over time. My belief is that Halifax, for example, went from having a small high quality book to a large volume, low price model. So, yes, things change. I'm not arguing that banks have always been responsible - they are at the moment but that's a function of limited credit and high risk.
2) The sheer volume of requests for credit and the customer's desire for instant answers means much credit application processes are automated. Mortgage applications, however, are an exception and they're still processed manually, I believe. If a computer does say no, the banks usually have an appeal process which means a trained, qualified underwriter looks at it.
3) Refusing to lend money to someone who can't afford it isn't so much looking after someone, rather it's not messing people up even more - and protecting the banks own money.
Banks aren't about lending responsibly they are about making money and for the last 5 years large numbers of unsecured risky loans have been handed out by many banks and it is causing issues now
Banks should not lend money to people who cannot afford it
Banks should also not randomly offer to lend money or extend credit to those people who by the simple incoming figure in theory can afford it because it tempts people into borrowing money they actually can't afford and I know at least one bank which does this because I got such letters
The lending model many UK and US banks have used for the last 10 years was/is unsustainable and its now stopped working. The consequence of this is a lot of people will suffer both because the banks are no longer willing to lend them or their businesses money and jobs are lost.
This is as much the banks fault as those irresponsible lendees you were having to say no to
Yes I have big, big problems with unsolicited, automated credit limit/overdraft increases.
However, it wasn't the overabundance of personal debt that caused the credit crunch - that was the oversupply of housing in the US which broke the "house prices must continue to rise" rule that the whole system was based on (not capitalism, the selling-on of mortgages to 'spread the risk').
The main problem we have is that businesses (and individuals) made plans based on being able to get easy, cheap credit which they can no longer get. If they don't have a plan B, they're in deep trouble (exhibit A: Woolworths)
One can argue that certain business models in banking (productisation of financial services, highly sales orientated branch staff pushing products on customers, grabbing market share as main priority rather than organic growth based on deposits held with bank etc) were only viable in the context of cheap easy wholesale credit markets, which was an experiment that will not be repeated.
Virtually anything we do now is (insert cliché about horses and doors here)
The point is I wasn't arguing for Nationalisation - just saying that if banks are bailed out they should have the `watch over the shoulder` treatment as the taxpayer owns a part of it.
It's alright saying that banks are being prudent now - what about the long term? Further on down the line when banks start drifting into easy credit again there'll need to be a check on that with rules and regulations.
If the banks were that good at assessing risk, Charlotte, then how do you explain the massive fuck-up over the last five years or so, and maybe longer, over badly managed risk and exposure to bad loans?
And frankly, I wouldn't want these suckers bailed out either, they deserve to go bust, given the amount of money they wasted in handing out massive bonuses to fuck-ups who didn't create wealth but destroyed it.
However, that attitude takes the economy down with it.
So how about a half-way house? Have some nationalised banks that don't act as social utilities, but lend responsibly, but don't take absurd risks. And if your corporate banks mess up, as they have now, you let them go under and ensure the system doesn't collapse with it because there are some banks that are still responsible and aren't likely to hand out billions in bonuses every year.
I think this misses three big points.
1. Your central argument is that banks have an interest in lending responsibly to customers because of their commercial interest in managing the risk, and assume that government ownership would mean lending to anybody who 'needed' it. In fact the banks, left to themselves, got into trouble by staking the money invested with them into a variety of financial bets they did not understand. The answer is probably a much more thorough regulatory restriction than has yet been considered.
Vince Cable puts a good idea in an interview with Fabian Review: a firewall to separate the type of 'high street' domestic lending you are writing about from international financial activity. That might lead to banks again acting in the way you describe.
http://www.nextleft.org/2009/01/vince-cable-prevent-high-street-banks.html
2. Why does it matter if the banks get it wrong? Can't they just pay the price of their mistakes?
Lehman Brothers was allowed to fail, but other banks with domestic lending functions were not. So the losses have been socialised, but because there was a de facto public guarantee that several banks were too big to fail. (Alternatively, if the costs of allowing them to fail had been considered acceptable, it would fall to government to create some financial infrastructure if private investors would not do so).
More broadly, the bailout is just a reminder that there are several parts of core public infrastructure which, even if delivered by regulated market competition in the private sector, can not sensibly be allowed to fail. The banks are not the only example. The core utilities are in a similar position. That is why there needs to be tight regulation of these industries in particular, as otherwise they are a one-way bet (which creates very perverse incentives for excessive risk).
3. When you say the effects of the part nationalisation is part of the problem (because there are consequences for lending, which is true), you don't say whether you think Northern Rock should have been left to fail, or whether government should have refused to recapitalise the banks.
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