This blog is closed and has moved to http://Charlottegore.com. See you there!
It's one of those opinions that's going to get me into bother in this party. I've already lambasted Green Taxes as being our equivilant of Clause 4 (and felt like I've disappointed a lot of people I respect and admire in the progress), and I promised to go away and have a think.And thunk I have.
First, let me declare an interest. Public transport round where I live is horrible. Getting to work by it is, really, a complete nightmare - going from 15 minutes by car to about an hour and a half by bus, or financial ruin by taxi. That's 2 and a half hours a day I'd losem or 12 and a half hours a week. In other words, I'd either be forced to move near my employer (the most expensive part of Halifax), move into Halifax Town Centre (worst part of Halifax), or get a job in Elland (there's no jobs in Elland). I would need to be up by over £600 a month to make up for the lost time, minimum, for me to even vaguely brake even.
Anything else - anything except my car - I'm flexible on. Tax it however you like, I don't care. I'm even flexible on what kind of car I should have - give me a decent alternative to a petrol car that saves me money then hey, let's do it! But stop me having my own personal transportation? That's going to cost you £600 a month or you're going to have a fight on your hands.
And see, I've actually tried to give up driving. What happened is that I became a reclusive basket-case, cut off from my friends, exhausted and robbed of all self respect and self confidence after about 6 months. I just couldn't mentally cope with hanging out with the chavs at the bus stop and on the buses where I lived at the time. The buses there are a repellant, threatening and soul-destroying experience and inevitably I caved in.
So yes, I'm not reasonable about this. I'm barely rational. I fear for my sanity and the quality of my life if I'm put into an eat-or-drive situation.
But if it's a choice between saving the world and driving then maybe an argument can be made. But, me stopping driving isn't going to save the world. In fact, what bothers me about Green Taxes is that I believe that even if the UK became carbon neutral overnight we'd still have the threat of climate change hanging over us. The only benefit seems to be that we'd be setting a good example - is that enough of a reason to go to the country with?
Have we really proved beyond reasonable doubt that Green Taxes are essential?
Have we really proved what the benefits to the environment will be? Can we prove that if we bring in Green Taxes we will honestly be able to prevent disaster?
See, with that kind of evidence then we've got a real policy. Without it we've got an ideological crusade.
I don't reiish being challenging on this issue but if party members can't convince me - an actual member of the party - then how can we convince people outside the party?
I can appreciate the need not to be seen as backing away from policy lightly but, I still have this feeling that the truly pioneering thing to do is figure out how to get real and profound international action, or how to get the automobile industry to pull it's finger out and provide carbon neutral personal transport that's not entirely terrible.
So yes, I'm sorry to disappoint. Just wish it wasn't so lonely being a pro-car Lib Dem ;)
Update: It's worth pointing out that I don't even know what the Green Taxes will be, what they will tax or anything like that. Switching to price per road will have zero environmental impact because you can either drive a Hummer or a Prius for the same cost. If you have different bands then you're charging people per mile and by how polluting they are - almost mirroring the effect of fuel duties but with potential benefits to congestion. If you just increase fuel duties by another 10p or just restore the escalator, well you're going to be committing political suicide. So, I guess, if someone could actually point me to any details about Green Taxes - what exactly we're going to tax and by how much - then maybe I can have another look.
Maybe people have said, 'don't woryr, it'll be neutral at best' but - how do I find out?
This blog is closed and has moved to http://Charlottegore.com. See you there!
Posts
10 comments:
A notably sensible post. There is nothing illiberal about green tax cynicsm (in fact, on the contrary...) and I expect more and more of us will muster the courage to show our faces as time progresses.
I originally supported green taxes as they were an alternative to income tax - but of course there are far preferable alternatives to both.
Must end comment without saying lan...
First of all there's a simple solution to your problem. Get on your bike and stop being lazy! 15minutes drive isn't far on a bike and it's a lot more relaxing. My school is 20 minutes drive and I get there in 15. You get exercise which helps releave you of stress, which is something you get in a car. So your excuses simply aren't good enough.
The Green Tax Switch, is of course a switch. It puts tax on polution and releaves income tax from the poor. People who actually need there cars wouldn't be ruined by the tax. It would encoarage them to find alternatives.
Also remember improving public transport is a key part of LibDem policy.
Okay. Any advance on "you're lazy, you should cycle, no excuses" because that not won me over bizarrely enough.
I don't mean to be flippant or hostile, by the way, but if you're trying to pursuade people on teh doorstep then implying that the reason they disagree with our policies is because they're lazy is almost guaranteed to be counter-productive.
And that still leaves the basic question unanswered - what actual good will Green Taxes do? What quantifiable measurable benefits are there? How can we reassure people that there's a need for this?
Perhaps the problem here is that we are seeing green taxes as punitive - that they are there to punish us for despoiling the environment.
But nobody things that we have income tax to punish work - that work is a bad thing that needs to be put a stop to. (I say nobody, but I suppose there is a wing of the Green Party that thinks this.)
We're not suggesting £600 per month, on your car, nothing like, and you have suggested that you would not switch for less. Fine, that's your decision, and I am not going to second guess it. Somebody else for whom driving is worth less, may switch and that is their decision.
OK, so here's another suggestion that might tempt you. Not only are green taxes instead of income tax, but how about also having them instead of whining at people about how they choose to travel. Not whining doesn't cost anything.
Whether addtional green taxes should go on motoring which is already heavily taxed (at higher than Stern's cost of carbon emissions, as many enjoy pointing out), or on non-transport fuels etc, is another question.
Hmm interesting Joe, but you're still ducking the basic need for them in the first place and what actual, measurable benefits there might be.
Lib Dems seem to be quite into the idea that it's a sensible and obvious thing to do but... is it? Is it the very best way of preventing climate disaster?
I think they are an important part of a big picture of combating climate change, but that big picture does need to be painted.
International agreements are the goal. They will be possible if they don't hurt too much, and for this we need to show that the alternative technologies work, we need to make them cheap enough, and we need to show that much energy use is of marginal value and can be cut out without much pain. Green taxes are grist to the mill of all these.
OK, I'll attempt a few basic rationales for green taxes.
1) When we use our cars to get to work, it does have an economic cost, in terms of things like congestion and pollution, which tends to fall on society as a whole. Green taxes are thus a way of making us pay our fair share of that cost.
2) Although you and me stopping or cutting down driving is not going to stop climate change or global warming, it is the case that small changes can add up to significant differences.
3) If the UK is seen as doing the right thing by cutting its carbon emissions through the use of green taxation, that strengthens its case when pressing the USA and China to cut back on their carbon emissions.
4) The oil's going to run out anyway at some stage, so increasing taxess on it may allow us to eke it out for another 10 years or so, giving us more time to make the transition to a non-fossil fuel economy, which we are going to have to do at some stage anyway.
5) Green taxes are a good way of raising money to pay for vital improvements, such as major public transport infrastructure projects.
OK, I have expanded on my point here:
joeotten.blogspot.com/2008/06/green-taxes-place-in-big-picture-of.html
Out of the total square mileage of the UK Lib Dem parliamentary seats take up a significant swathe. That might suggest as a party we would be somewhat foolish to be perceived as anti-car. The case for green taxes was summarised well by Bernard Salmon above but I feel we could usefully be seen to be supportive of reductions in diesel duty (not petrol duty) so that these fall into line with our major European partners such as France and Germany. As a party we need to be seen as living in the real world and sharing the concerns of the wider public about the economy, household budgets etc which are damaged by unnecessarily high freight transport costs.
Post a Comment